Spanglish vs. Franglish (Espanglés vs. franglais)
In an article on Spanglish, I suggested the reason that Spanish seems more willing than French to accept the English incursion is because Spanish is gaining speakers and international status while French has lost some of its status in recent decades. But such an explanation probably is anthropomorphizing the languages a bit, and a reader of this site recently suggested a more likely explanation.
J.H.'s explanation is, basically, that language is more important to one's identity in France (and, I would think, as much or more so in Quebec) than it is in the Spanish-speaking world. Here's more of what he had to say:
As a French major considering trying to learn to speak Spanish (I already do a fair good job reading it), I happened upon your article about Spanglish. While I see the logic of your argument comparing the status of French and Spanish as international languages, I do not think that has anything to do with the French response to the seeming encroachment of English on the French language.I think there's a lot of truth in what J.H. had to say. I haven't been to Madrid, but I remember well my last visit to South America and visiting the Mall del Sol (note that it wasn't called the Centro Comercial del Sol) in Guayaquil, Ecuador. Although Ecuador is a poor country, this was an upscale mall, and it wouldn't be hard to imagine that this mall was in the middle of Dallas or Chicago — nearly every store had an English-language name, the restaurants sold cheesecake (not tarta de queso), and T-shirts with slogans in Spanish were almost impossible for this tourist/souvenir-hunter to find. Although the language of the mall was clearly Spanish (I remember hearing no American tourists there), there was certainly no reluctance to let English creep in. The cultural leadership of the United States seemed to be admired, even if its military actions weren't.
The French national identity, as was widely discussed in France during the past presidential election, is deeply connected to the purity of the French language. To be French in part means to speak the language of Molière and Racine, which would most definitely exclude words like un mail (a e-mail) or un relooking (a makeover). Moreover, the French savoir-faire is often contrasted and judged superior to Anglo-Saxon (read American) way of being, thus the use of English loanwords in the place of French equivalents seems, to those who want to safeguard the language, somewhat akin to allowing adopting the speaking of the invading barbarians.
Although I cannot speak for Hispanophone world, it seems from my time in Madrid that the Spanish are much less tied to Spanish a means of cultural superiority and distinction. Laura Lawless, the About.com French guide, has experience in both Costa Rica, France, and Morocco and might be able to make the cultural comparison more clear. Thank you for all your hard work.
About the only people I've seen who hesitate to use vocabulary such as email and música rock are Spanish students who want to speak the "pure" language.
For better or worse, "pure" Spanish no longer exists. Like it or not, the popularity of U.S.-based pop culture and the Internet are changing the Spanish vocabulary. That doesn't mean that your English will necessarily be understood outside the tourist centers, nor even that learning Spanish will become any easier, for "real" Spanish still makes at least 99 percent of the vocabulary. What it does mean, though, is that all languages in use are changing. That's what living languages do. In Spanish, that change is rapid enough to be noticed.
What do you think? Feel free to click the Comment link below or to discuss this in our forum.
Comments
The observations on the use of English in the Spanish-speaking vs. French-speaking worlds was interesting. I can’t speak for the Spanish-speaking world since I have only very recently started to learn Spanish. However, I do have a question and comment in regards to the use of English in the French-speaking world (in particular France).
I realize that the Academie Francaise is dead-set against the use of English in the French language, but other than a small minority, the average French person seems very willing to use English in everyday life. I guess I’m confused as to why people think that France is against the use of English in their language. I’ve spent a little time in France and was actually very surprised at the level of English that I heard and saw everywhere. There are hundreds of modern English words (e.g. Internet, email, break, job, tag) that the French use along with expressions (e.g. best seller, has been, top model).
Additionally, the English-speaking culture (in particular American) seems to be everywhere in France too. There are about a dozen American TV shows along with several British ones dubbed in French. You constantly hear American and British songs in stores. It’s actually almost impossible to have complete French language immersion in France because English is everywhere. I realize that’s somewhat of an exaggeration, but one definitely hears more English in France than French in America.
So I don’t think the French are that opposed to English influence anymore. I’ve actually had French people tell me that it’s sophisticated for French people to throw in English to their sentences.
I’m curious about the French major who wrote the response. Was your experience more with French literature students and French professors teaching French Lit? Possibly they are less open to English. What do you think?
In contrast to other commentators, I do not know about the French side of the argument but I do have experience with the Spanish language in both Spain and Latin America. My impression is that the Spanish people are very proud of their language, much more so than we are of our language in the United States. There are quite a few language purists in Spain who would resent any English encroachment.
Latin American Spanish seems completely different to me. From what I have experienced, they do not have nearly the pride in their language as the Spanish do. I think that is one of the reasons for the adoptation of English words and phrases. But, I think part of it is also for practical reasons. “Mall” is a much more manageable word than “centro comercial”, and more precise in its meaning. The practical use of English words interspersed in the Spanish language can be seen very clearly in the “Spanglish” spoken by people of hispanic descent in the United States. For example, there isn’t a word in Spanish for “ride”, so the English word is adopted: “Dáme un ride”. Because there is so much interaction between English speakers and Spanish speakers, and because there are so many Spanish speakers learning English, a semantic gap in Spanish can be filled with an English word or phrase that conveys the meaning.
Jean-Benoit Nadeau and Julie Barlow mention in one of their books (I’m not sure if it’s “The Story of French” or “Sixty Million Frenchmen Can’t Be Wrong” that using English words is considered sophisticated in France. “The Story of French” is a very interesting read; the French spoken today is not necessarily that of Molière and Racine. There were many dialects/languages in France until fairly recently. However, there doesn’t seem to be the nationalistic fervor about them the way there is about Catalan in Spain, for example.
Spanish in Latin America covers a much larger area and has a lot of regional variation. I hear a lot of ‘ungrammatical’ usage here in Honduras, and the spelling! I spell Spanish much better than many here because I have a concept of the differences between b/v and s/c/z, for example. Anyway, maybe Spanish in Latin America is not so monolithic and therefore there is less tendency for linguistic pride?
BTW, there is a word here in Honduras for a ‘ride’ - ‘un jalon’, from ‘jalar’, to haul. It sounds like a cognate, but maybe it’s really an indigenous word?
Some notes on Spanglish:
-I’ll start by refuting some of Erichsen’s assertions (made on the Spanglish article):
“So far, no countries have taken the extreme step of banning or limiting English words in advertising, as has been done in France and part of Canada.”
It has been made official in Colombia by means of the “Decreto 2744 de 1989″, article 2.b, that:
“La denominación de todo establecimiento, empresa industrial o comercial, así
como la de institutos de educación, centros culturales, sociales o deportivos,
hoteles, restaurantes y, en general, las de todo establecimiento, negocio o
servicio abierto al público.” Roughly translated, this means that any registered establishment has to have a spanish name.
“…and remover for “to remove” instead of sacar.” “Remover” is cognate with “remove” as they both come from the latin word “removēre”.
-Now as for the Spanglish vs. Franglish article, it can be argued likewise that for hispanoamericans, speaking Spanish means speaking the language of Cervantes, even though if you were to say “fermosura” instead of “hermosura”, you probably would not be understood. History has taught us that an empire exerts control through language, or in the words of the famous spanish grammarian Antonio de Nebrija “siempre la lengua fue compañera del imperio, y de tal manera lo siguió que juntamente començaron, crecieron y florecieron, y después junta fue la caída de ambos”. And thus a lingua franca permeates other languages through cultural influence, but it has to be remarked that Greek, Latin, Arabic, Spanish and French once had this status. Only an isolated community can mantain a “pure language”.
Purists notwithstanding, English loan words are not frowned upon when they stand for a loan-concept. But when there is a Spanish word that accurately translates an English word it is generally a sign of lack of education of the user. As an example, “pachuco” Spanish and “pocho” Spanish –the Spanish spoken by low-income latin-american inmigrants in the US and front-of-the-border inhabitants, respectively– is considered in Mexico as a sign of poverty and low education whenever it is used.
-In Spanish it is possible to estimate how much use has been given to a loan word by examining its degree of “castellanización”. Spanish speakers tend to adapt the original pronunciation when using loan words, altering the orthography in the process. With technology-related terms, the castelianization process is faster than with other terms, whereas some other less common words mantain their original spelling: best-seller, jeep, kibbutz, leitmotiv, etc.
-Jandi: I think your notion of the pride spaniards take in their language, as opposed to latin-americans, is true. In general, the Spanish spoken in Madrid is considered the most prestigious form throughout Spanish speaking countries. This has a historical explanation. Without going into much detail, the cultural and commercial capital of Spain once was Toledo. Afterwards the power center was moved to Madrid and from there America’s colonization was supervised. The dialect that bureaucrats in America tried to emulate (in order to impress and gain favors) was that of Madrid.
Also, Spain is the Spanish speaking country that produces most philologists, a profession that generally is regarded as abstruse and unworthy in America but is highly esteemed in Spain.
-By the way, Pamela Hanson is right, “jalar” and “haul” are cognates as they both come from the French “haler”. In Mexico, the slang for “ride” is aventón. In Spain the word is “autoestop”, a loan word from French, even though the French invented the term from English loan words.
thanks for all contributors.I’ve learnt a lot .
The same is true for Holland. My dad went back there for a visit a few years ago and heard them on the news using english root words with dutch prefixes and suffixes instead of their own root words.
If you don’ change you fall behind.
El que no cambia se estanca!